Episode 203: The Problem With Invidia [7 Deadly Sins of Writing a Book]

Business For Superheroes Podcast Transcription: Episode Two Hundred And Three: The Problem With Invidia

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*In an industry stuffed with marketing bullshit, empty promises and shiny-suited liars, one woman’s had enough. She knows what it’s like to have the wrong clients, no money and no time for fun, but she also knows how to fix it, and, on the Business For Superheroes Show, she promises to tell the down and dirty truth about business, sales and running away with the circus! Here’s your host: Vicky Fraser…*  

Vicky:  Hello, and welcome to the 1000 Authors Show. I'm Vicky Fraser and this is my husband Joe.

Joe: Hello!

Vicky: Hello! And today, we are, oh we're doing a very exciting thing which I'll come to in a moment, we're starting a new podcast series, but it's not gonna be as never-ending as the negotiation, terrorist negotiation was.

Joe: Hostage negotiation.

Vicky:  Hostage negotiation, yeah. We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Joe: We negotiate with hostage-takers.

Vicky:  - Yes, we do. But today, what're we drinking Joe, what're you drinking?

Joe: I've got a red bush tea, red bush and vanilla.

Vicky:   Vanilla rooibos. Rooibos.

Joe:  See, I didn't call it rooibos because I'm never sure how to pronounce it.

Vicky:   Rooibos.

Joe: Is that the right way? Is that--

Vicky:  - Yeah, that's what Kenda says and she is South African.

Joe: Okay, hi Kenda.

Vicky:   Hi Kenda!

Joe: Rooibos.

Vicky:   And I am drinking rose tea. Oh, it says I am beautiful, I am bountiful, I am blissful. Which also fulfills one of my habits of the day, which is a positive affirmation. 'Cause we spent, 'cause you know how I spend a lot of time being mean to myself.

Joe: Yes.

Vicky:   So one of my daily habits is to say a positive affirmation. So, I am beautiful, I am bountiful, and I am blissful.

Joe: Good, well done.

Vicky:   And I feel all of those things right now. 'Cause, I'm also wearing, for YouTube fans, lip gloss. Which, I'm,

Joe: Amazing.

Vicky:   not usually a lip gloss person, but Jane, the organic beautician, hi Jane!

Joe: Hi Jane.

Vicky:   I'm in her VIP beauty club, and this beautiful lip gloss, Dr. Hauschka lip gloss, came with it, and it's not my usual color, it's darker than I normally wear, but I like it.

Joe: Very nice.

Vicky:  Thanks. I'm trusting, 'cause I had to put, I had to put it on looking at the, at the kind of, the video screen, so everything was backwards so I was like, why is my, why is it not doing the right-hand side of my lips, and then I just, it was gonna, anyway.

Joe: Cool story.

Vicky:  Thanks. And Joe is feeling paranoid because he's got a patchy face.

Joe: Patchy face, you're right it's--

Vicky:  - 'Cause you, 'cause you haven't shaved for, how long? Days.

Joe: I don't know, long time. Many days.

Vicky:   Yes. Anyway, right. Today, we are talking about, well this is the beginning of a new series, this is number one in the seven deadly sins of writing a book, and over the next seven episodes, there will be some very tenuous links with the Biblical,

Joe: Super tenuous links.

Vicky:   with the Biblical seven deadly sins. But, we're starting off with seven, with deadly sin number six, and, if you're going by the Biblical list, which is invidia.

Joe: What?

Vicky:   I know, right? It's a new word that I just discovered today, invidia.

Joe: Is it?

Vicky:   Yeah, envy. It's the opposite of mudita, 'cause I wanted to write about mudita you see, and that gave me a whole, we'll come to that in a minute as well,

Joe: Hang on a minute, hang on, you just,

Vicky:  - two new words.

Joe: just bounced all over the place there.

Vicky:   No no no, there's gonna be three new words for you in this podcast today.

Joe: What's the seventh, what's the deadly sin we're after?

Vicky:   Envy.

Joe: Envy.

Vicky:   Envy.

Joe: Envy. Right.

Vicky:   Yes. Another--

Joe: None of those other words- that nobody understands.

Vicky:   Another word for which is invidia.

Joe:  Really?

Vicky:   Mm-hm, we'll come to that in a moment. Right. But first, as per usual.

Joe: Confused.

Vicky:   Which is fairly standard. What are we reading at the moment? Joe, what are you reading?

Joe: Well, I mean. This is becoming a bit of a thing now. I'm reading "The Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan, except I'm not really reading it.

Vicky:  Still.

Joe: I'm kind of, I read like three words of it when I go to bed, and then I fall asleep. And, I'm not making any progress whatsoever, and there's, like 100 books, and--

Vicky:   Why? Do you think maybe you ought to read one of the other books I've put in front of you now?

Joe: I don't know, don't know.

Vicky:  Okay. Well, I think you should. But also, I've been talking a lot over the last couple of days about striking the word should from our vocabularies, because it's a word loaded with shame and guilt, and it's just a bullshit word, isn't it? Should. You should do this. Really, why? But you should read a different book. So, I'm gonna put one in front of you. I, on the other hand, am reading a--

Joe: 53rd book of the week.

Vicky:   Almost finished, oh, no. I read a lot of books, that's a good thing.

Joe: Yeah.

Vicky:   I'm not gonna ensmallen myself to make you feel better. We've been talking a lot about the patriarchy today, me and my friend Susie.

Joe: Fine. Well I'm not gonna feel guilty about my commitment to "The Wheel of Time" by Robert Jordan.

Vicky:   Well you shouldn't, you shouldn't feel guilty about your commitment to "The Wheel of Time."

Joe: Well, stop trying to ensmallen me.

Vicky:   I'm, I would just be, it would be nice if next week's podcast could feature a different book that you're reading. I think it's turning into a, you know, like a, like a, an ongoing theme for the podcast. Mm-hm, mm-hm. Okay. I'm reading, almost finished reading, "The Salt Path" by Raynor Winn.

Joe: Right.

Vicky:   And it's great. It's really great. The very first few pages had me in tears, because I can't handle it when people's pets die, or any pets die, or anyone, animals anywhere die, ever. But it's, it's just really great, it's a memoir. She and her husband, Moth, lost, basically lost their home, they became homeless. And this, it's a really good book for anybody to read, and I'm gonna make my parents read it, anybody to read who looks at homeless people and judges them for it. Because, I don't know, if you read the book and the reactions that they get from people when they say they're homeless, and people'll like, physically back away, and assume they're drunks, and assume they've got addiction problems and all the rest, and, you know, a lot of people who are homeless do have addiction problems, and that's no reason to look down on them. Because it's a disease, anyway. So they became homeless through just a series of horrendous bad luck things that could happen to anyone, and also, her husband Moth was diagnosed with, I wanna say, CBD, CDB. It's a degenerative illness that will kill him basically, all at the same time. So that was like, woo-hoo. And, instead of, they didn't know what to do, so they decided they were gonna walk the salt path, which is the Devon and Cornwall coast, from Minehead to Poole. It's a very, it's like 630 miles, of coastline. And it's her memoir of that walk and what happened to them, and, it's just, it's great, it's really great, it's really uplifting. I haven't quite finished it yet so I don't know what the outcome was, but I love it. I would never have picked it up, it's for our local book club. And I'm really glad that I've read it, and I've almost finished it. So it's not fiction technically, but it's, it's my fiction choice, it's my non-business choice.

Joe:  Non-business choice.

Vicky:   Yeah. And then my non-fiction book that I'm reading at the moment, I finally finished The Happiness project, and we'll talk about that at some point I'm sure, but the, I've literally just had delivered, "The Middle Finger Project" by Ash Ambirge, and I'm really, I pre-ordered it weeks ago, and I'm really excited. Ash Ambirge is one of my writing crushes. She's amazing. I've taken a couple of her courses, and she's got like a multi-million dollar business, she makes multi-million dollars from writing on the internet.

Joe: Nice.

Vicky:  Which is just ace, and she's funny, and she's got a business called The Middle Finger Project which is just an awesome business name, and she helps, she helps rebellious women create amazing businesses.

Joe: Cool.

Vicky:   And so, I've been waiting for her book for a while, I'm really excited to start reading it, and, yeah, I haven't actually started yet, but it's a beautiful, I didn't bring it in the house, it's a beautiful book and I will wave it around in front of the camera next week.

Joe: Cool.

Vicky:  And talk about it a lot, so that's gonna be great, I'm looking forward to that. But first, well no, second, we've done the first, second we're gonna be talking about mudita, because--

Joe: A what now?

-Vicky:   That's the opposite of envy. So, the word mudita is a Sanskrit word.

Joe: Mudita, M-U-D-I-T-A.

Vicky:  Mudita. Yes. It's a Sanskrit word meaning pure joy, especially vicarious or sympathetic joy, unadulterated by self-interest. So it's like the opposite of envy. So you know when you look at somebody else's good fortune and you think, ugh, god, I just, and it eats you up and it's like oh, I just, I wish I could have that, and it's like a negative feeling, which is why it's one of the seven deadly sins I guess. Mudita is the opposite of that, it's looking at somebody else's good fortune or achievements and taking joy in it, just for the sake of, of seeing them do well. You know? And it's something that I have been actively trying to practice for the last few years, because it's so easy to become envious about stuff. And, envy will eat you up inside, and it's just really destructive. And, I think I first started thinking about this, I didn't know what it was called, and I didn't even think of it as being the opposite of envy, but I first started thinking about this when I started teaching pole a few years ago, because there are few things that I find fill me with joy more than seeing somebody who, when they started my pole class, couldn't even lift their own body weight, and then they get a move that they've been trying to get for ages, or they climb the pole for the first time, or, they feel confident enough to put on a tiny pair of pole pants and go and do pole class and, it just, it just fills, fills me up with delight. And I think that was the first time I started thinking about, it's like oh, well how can I apply this feeling, how can I get this feeling in other areas of my life too? And so it was just a cool thing. So, yeah, we're gonna be talking about envy and mudita today, and how, how they can hold you back or spur you on to write your book, or do anything else, really, in business. But before that, I wanted to just share another word with you, because when I was mulling this over and kind of planning this podcast in my head, I was thinking ah, is mudita, what's the opposite of mudita, and, is it schadenfreude? I was like yeah, could be schadenfreude, you know, taking pleasure in other people's, in other people's misfortune, but it's not, it's not quite the opposite of it, but, in looking at what schadenfreude was, it was like oh, it's one of those words that we don't, oh we don't have a word for that in English. We do have a word for that in English!

Joe:  We do?

Vicky:  Yeah. A totally unpronounceable word, but a word nonetheless.

Joe:  Okay, go for it.

Vicky:   Okay. It's, epicari, no.

Joe:  Cacy.

Vicky:  Epicaricacy.

Joe:  Epicaricacy. That's not unpronounceable.

Vicky:   It's, I practiced it like, about 12 times before you walked into the office. Epicaricacy. It is an English word, it's the English word for schadenfreude. It means pleasure derived from another person's misfortune.

Joe:  Okay.

Vicky:   Yeah. And, we are bringing you this vital piece of information because, I don't know, it came to me. It's always good to learn new words, right?

Joe:  Epicaricacy.

Vicky:   Epicaricacy, meaning schadenfreude. Oh, and, there's a word that Sarah, one of my coaching clients, told me the other day in German, pechvogel.

Joe:  Pechvogel?

Vicky:  Yes, which means, it's, well pechvogel is the misfortune bird. Okay.

Vicky:  It's the bird of misfortune, and I'm gonna talk more about that probably in a daily email or something, which you can sign up for at www.moxiebooks.co.uk You get all sorts of useless information like that in my daily emails, so, right. Let's talk about what this podcast is actually about, shall we.

Joe:  15 minutes in. What's this podcast about?

Vicky:   It's about the seven deadly sins, number six.

Both: Envy.

Vicky:   Yeah, we're starting with number six, but it's number one. The first deadly sin of book writing, envy.

Joe:  Envy.

Vicky:   Or, invidia. Envy. Really easy.

Joe:  How many times can we say envy?

Vicky:   Sorry.

Joe:  Envy.

Vicky:   Envy. You know what, I don't think I've written down the, the word, the actual definition of the word invidia. Shit, hang on a second. Invidia, here we go,

Joe:  Ah, man.

Vicky:   here we go, here we go. Invidia is a sense of envy, a looking upon associated with the evil eye from invidere, to look against in a hostile manner. So there you go.

Joe:  Is it, so to, invidia and envy are synonyms, is that what we're saying? Or, envy is from sin--

Vicky:   Well yes, kind of. A feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

Joe:  Mmkay.

Vicky:   So it's like a hostility and a, yeah, just a, a kind of destructive nastiness. And it's really easy to experience envy when we're feeling inadequate, I think. Do you ever experience envy, Joe?

Joe:  I, some, I guess, I envy things, no, not really.

Vicky:   D'you not?

Joe:  No. I don't really desire very much. I'm a bit jealous of people who started doing the things they love younger, and are better at them now, so things like the BJJ that I really enjoy.

Vicky:   Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Joe:  I'm a bit annoyed that I didn't start that when I was 20.

Vicky:   But I mean even that, we can talk about that though, because it's utterly pointless being annoyed about that, isn't it? 'Cause it's like, literally--

Joe:  Oh yeah yeah, completely. There's nothing I can do about that. That's, that's like the definition of something I can't fix.

Vicky:   Yeah. Which is why envy is such a pointless and destructive emotion. And I know, I do understand that, because, I don't wanna, and we're gonna have to do a podcast episode at some point about the, just the awfulness of saying to somebody I understand exactly how you feel. Because generally you don't, but, in this case I kinda do because, like I see the kids who come to trapeze and pole classes and they're 15 years old, or 14, and even the kids who are like five, six, seven years old.

Joe:  And you're like, god, that'd be amazing.

Vicky:   I wish, I wish, and there was nothing like that when I was that age anyway, so I don't know how, I don't, when I was that age, I don't know how one would've got into the circus, other than being born in the circus.

Joe:  Being born into the circus, yeah.

Vicky:   Yeah. So yeah, this, it's--

Joe:  So that's, that's the kind of thing I envy really, is, is, when people have made really good decisions a long time ago, and there's very little chance of catching up.

Vicky:   But would you have done that, because I remember when we first met, you were an amazing climber.

Joe:  Yes. Well I was never amazing,

Vicky:   And you climbed--

Joe:  but I was all right.

Vicky:   I think you're amazing. But you, you, 'cause that was what you did every day at university, wasn't it, instead of actually going to lectures, which is why

Joe:  Yeah, pretty much.

Vicky:   you never graduated, 'cause you, but you didn't need to bloody graduate, 'cause look at what you're doing now. Huh, I know, right?

Joe: Don't tell everybody.

Vicky:   Oh, is that a secret?

Joe:  No, not really.

Vicky:   Yeah, and so you, you know, you could've carried on with climbing. But you didn't, so it's like, what's important to you. Anyway, I wanted to talk about envy because, I, quite often, not quite often. Eh, sometimes, sometimes, I will look at other-- particularly, mostly with writers with me because I'm a writer, and writers tend to be racked with self-doubt a lot of the time. But I have like a bunch of, a bunch of people, mostly women actually, 'cause I, women are frickin' amazing writers, and I would look at their writing and I'd be like, oh, really wish I'd written that. And instead of, instead of finding joy in it, I'd just beat myself up with it, be like I'm not, I'm not good enough, I'm not, why can't I write like that, why can't I do this?

Joe:  Is that? Hm, is that envy?

Vicky:   Yeah. It feels like it to me, because I just, 'cause it's that longing for something that I don't have, or that I perceive that I don't have. And that's the thing is, is it actually true? Or I will look at other people's perceived, well, other people's supposed success, on, this is, this is the--

Joe:  The bits of what they show you.

Vicky:  Exactly yeah, and this is the insidiousness of the internet and social media, is that you do only see--

Joe:  The what now? Insidious.

Vicky:   Insidiousness, of the internet and social media, is that you only see that face that people show you. And, you know, you look at these overnight successes that have taken 20 years to build.

Joe:  Yes, but you only heard about them yesterday, and boom, you're there.

Vicky:   Yeah. And, you know, every, like once in a billion, you might get somebody who's genuine overnight success and they got totally lucky. Almost never happens. But yeah, you can, it's really easy to look at them and just think, I want that business. I want to be able to do the things they're doing. Ugh, they're running retreats in Italy, why aren't I doing that? And then you go, well why aren't I doing that? D'you know what I mean, and so, that was when Misty and I got together, we're like, yeah goddammit, we want to travel more, and we want to make, you know, we want to do something that funds our traveling and our adventures, and that's when we started the Breaking Bread masterminds, and we went to San Diego.

Joe:  Which are awesome.

Vicky:   Yeah, which are awesome. We went to San Diego in 2018, and we went to Portugal last year, and we're going to the Republic of Ireland this year.

Joe:  Nice.

Vicky:  Which is gonna be ace. So, yeah, envy.

Joe:  Send us an email if you wanna book onto that by the way, folks.

Vicky:  Oh hell yeah, 'cause that's gonna sell out, it's like a maximum of, usually, six people.

Joe: It's like half a dozen people.

Vicky:   Yeah, and it will, it will sell out. It's sold out every single time we've done it.

Joe:  Is there gonna be sunshine?

Vicky:   No, it's Ireland. Like I'm certainly not guaranteeing sunshine, but it will be beautiful, and green, the Emerald Isle, you see? And it will be fun.

Joe:  I'll drink Guinness with Berto.

Vicky:   Are you gonna break Berto again?

Joe:  He's not very good at, he's not very good at beer.

Vicky:   I don't think you are anymore, we barely drink. So, yeah. And what're we talking about, envy.

Both: Envy.

Vicky:  Yes, one of the problems with envy, keeps you stuck and it keeps you bitter, because if you look at what other people are doing, I remember this from, from the times when I would look at other writers and go, I, they're so much better than me. I can't do this, what's the point? And it just keeps you stuck. It absolutely cripple, it crippled me. I would be unable to write anything. I would be unable to even think about writing anything, because all of the thoughts going round in my head were, well I'm never gonna be able to write like that, I'm never gonna be good enough, I'm, what is even the point in having a thought, let alone putting it down on paper? And, the thing about that is, that I, no I'm never gonna be able to write like that, and why would I want to? Because--

Joe:  That is somebody else's writing.

Vicky:   That is somebody else's writing, it's somebody else's voice, it's somebody else's ideas, and, it's, envy is a constant comparison of yourself to others unfavorably. And it's not fair, it's not fair on you, and it's not fair on them either. And, I realized this when I was talking to my coach, Mark, and, hi Mark,

Joe:  Hi Mark.

Vicky:   who does not listen to this podcast I don't think, but if he does, hi Mark! He's Australian, and he's awesome. And, I just, yeah I was kind of tell, this is one of the things that I was telling him, you know, I was struggling with a couple of different things, and that was one of the things that I said, that I'd just been stalled by this, just this crippling envy of other writers, and, how I would their stuff and just think, there's just no point, and y'know, who the hell am I to write a book about how to write a book when I'm just so shit at what I do? And, you know, none of which is true. But, that's, that's the way your head works, that's the way envy works, and he pointed out that there were two ways to look at other people's amazing writing, and the first way is envy, which is destructive, and crippling, and the second way is to look at what they're writing in terms of, they're putting this thing out there into the world, to, not just, not just for their own benefit. But it is partly for their own benefit and that's fine. But to try and help others. And, especially the people that I read, the people like Anne Shivani, and Ash Ambirge, and Suzi Gray, and Margo Aaron, and Hillary Weiss, and they're the people whose writing I love, I love their writing. And there are other people as well, but they're the ones who spring to mind right now. And, instead of looking at that writing and thinking, well I'm never gonna be able to write like them, you look at their writing and, take the lessons from it. So, what makes the writing so great and, how can I take those things, and then, weave them into my own voice? And that's what he taught, that's what he pointed out to me, that there are two ways of looking at things like that.

Joe:  Yeah, you can envy or you can learn.

Vicky:  Yeah! And I love that, and, that lesson is, 'cause I remember my counselor as well, my therapist a few years ago, saying, that she, one of the things that she'd learned was always to take a lesson from everything, not in a Pollyanna-ish way, not in like a, always seeing the bright side of everything way, because some things don't have a bright side, but how do you take a lesson from even the worst things that happen to you, and she was talking about how her sister died from cancer, like really young, and there is no upside to that, you know, there's no bright side to that. But the lesson that she took from it was that she was strong enough to deal with it, and she was strong enough to look after her parents, while they were dealing with it, and so that, she learned a lot about who she was, and what she could cope with. And it just makes the bad stuff easier to bear. Or not, maybe not easier to bear, but--

Joe:  But she knows she'll get through it.

Vicky:   Yeah. Yeah, it makes you resilient. I think it's resilience, is the thing, it's, it's, I don't think that, I don't think that some things ever get easier, but I think you do become resilient enough to deal with them.

Joe:  And confident that you will, I think.

Vicky:  Yeah. 'Cause it's really, when something awful happens to you, it's really difficult to see a future in which everything isn't awful.

Joe:  Mm, yeah, for sure.

Vicky:  And, and if you're stuck in that kind of, oh everything's awful, then you get to thinking, well what's the point? And that's a really dangerous route to, to kind of start wandering down. Does that make sense?

Joe:  Yeah I think so, I think so.

Vicky:   Yeah. So, what's the opposite of envy then? It's mudita.

Joe:  Mudita.

Vicky:   Yeah, it's finding joy in other people's, in other people's achievements, and that--

Joe:  It's a much more pleasant place to be.

Vicky:  Oh my god, it so is, and it allows you to, it allows you to learn that lesson, and it allows you to just be happy about it, because, I mean it's--

Joe:  You can, you can see this successful person doing their thing, but you can go well, that's brilliant.

Vicky:   Yeah, and you can cheer them, for no other reason than, you know just, oh it's awesome, and it's really bloody difficult to run a business. Anyone who tells you it's easy is lying, flat out lying. And so to see people doing well, in any endeavor, is really, really an awesome thing, and it's just a massive source, it's a massive source of happiness. And, I just, I just think it's really, I just think it's really cool to see people doing well, in whatever they're doing, you know, whether they're running a business or in a job or, or whatever and, you know, every now and then we do kind of indulge in a little bit of schadenfreude I guess, I know it's not quite the same thing, it's not quite the opposite, but, generally, schadenfreude just makes you feel like shit.

Joe:  Yeah.

Vicky:   I mean everybody does it sometimes. There's like, if Boris Johnson falls down the stairs, I'm gonna throw a little party. I am. But, but ultimately, it wouldn't make me feel very good, because, you know.

Joe:  I think, have a little chuckle, maybe. Don't throw a party.

Vicky:   Yeah, maybe not throw a party, yeah. Yeah, have a little chuckle. But, that was my, that was my petty side coming out.

Joe:  Be nicer.

Vicky:   Well. Yeah. But it's Boris Johnson, so fuck him, frankly. Fair enough. I'm fairly sure he doesn't give a shit what I think of him.

Joe: Pretty sure he doesn't.

Vicky:   So, yes. I think that's probably enough on seven deadly, on deadly sin number one of writing a book. Envy.

Joe:  Envy.

Vicky:   It will kill your creativity, it will kill your confidence. It will make you miserable, and it will make you a less pleasant person to be around.

Joe:  Hm. And you'll be missing out on the things you could learn.

Vicky:   Yeah you'll be, and you'll be missing out on just that sense of joy of seeing other people do well. And again, I think this is a habit. You know, you get into the habit of feeling a certain way. Everything, we are just like a bundle of habits.

Joe:  You do kinda get to choose how to react.

Vicky:   You do, you don't get to choose what happens to you, but you definitely get to choose how to react. And you get to choose how to see things and how to frame things and, even if, even if there's somebody that you don't like, and there are plenty of people in the online world that I don't like, you can still look at what they're doing and think, ah you know what, good for them. It's not the way I would do it, and it's not the way I want to do it,

Joe:  But it's working, working for them.

Vicky:  but it's working for them, fine, as long as they're not like actively cheating people, in which case screw them, but you know what I mean, it's like, it's like Gary Vee, I do not like him, I don't like the way he does stuff, but you know what, he does what he does really well, so.

Joe:  And a lot of people do like it.

Vicky:   Yeah, a lot of people do like it and it helps them, so whatever, you know, go do your thing, and I think that's cool. But you can look at things that you don't agree with and think, fine that's not for me. The lesson I take from that is, good for them. It's made me realize I don't wanna do it that way. And I think that's really cool as well.

Joe:  Yeah.

Vicky:   So. So what's the, what's the takeaway, Joe, from this week's rambling podcast?

Joe:  Well there's several new words. But, I guess, as well, catching yourself when you, when you recognize that you are starting to feel envious. You know, if you can spot that starting to happen--

Vicky:   Stop the rot.

Joe: Stop the rot, take it a different way, and just go, well you know, what can I learn about this and, actually, it's pretty good that that person has achieved all that they've achieved and, they're writing beautiful things and they're helping people, or whatever it is that you're feeling envious of. Good for them. Well done. What can I learn?

Vicky:   Yeah, and also see it as, it is possible. 'Cause this usually happens when somebody's in a similar industry to you, or in the same industry to you and they're doing something similar, and especially if you're struggling, it's like, you know what, it is possible, look, it is possible because they are doing it.

Joe:  Yep, it is working.

Vicky:   Yeah, and you don't have to do it exactly the same way, but what can you learn from it? And, yeah.

Joe:  Yeah. Just note, I think, I think just noticing your own responses to things is a huge start in all kinds of different ways.

Vicky:   Yeah, well said.

Joe:  What?

Vicky:  Well said.

Joe:  Oh, okay, thank you.

Vicky:   You're welcome. So coming up next week Joe, what's, what deadly sin are we tackling next week?

Joe:  Thoth.

Both: Thloth.

Joe:  We are tackling sloth.

Vicky:  Yes, we are. And, this won't be too much of a, a tenuous link. It'll be a little bit tenuous.

Joe:  There are gonna be more tenuous ones to follow.

Vicky:  Well if, when you think about what, well, the seven deadly sins, what are they? Let's, you should know this, you're a religious type.

Joe:  Lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, pride.

Vicky:  So I'm not entirely sure how we're gonna weave lust and gluttony into the seven deadly sins of book writing.

Joe:  I could do gluttony.

Vicky:  But I'm--

Joe:  I got a good, good--

Vicky:  Oh, you can write that part. No, no, no that's not what I'm saying.  No you can, no you can lead, oh my god, you can, you can present our podcast.

Joe:  No, I can chip, I can chip some thoughts in.

Vicky:  No, you can present our podcast, and I will be the sidekick.

Joe: I can't talk.

Vicky:   Good.

Joe:  Good. Words.

Vicky:   Yes you can. Oh no, you are, you're gonna do that. Okay, so you're,

Joe:  Shit.

Vicky:   you're gonna do the gluttony podcast. And, I'm gonna be your sidekick. Wrath and greed, and pride I think, I can--

Joe:  I'm saying nothing in case, case you throw it in my direction.

Vicky:   It's gonna be great. Oh historical sense, what's acedia and vainglory? Sorry, I'm like going down a Wikipedia.

Joe:  Yeah, watching someone browse the interweb is not--

Vicky:   Oh, okay so the virtues are chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, gratitude and humility. Aw I like those. So, I don't, yeah, gratitude. I guess, yeah, gratitude is, gratitude is a good thing. I write down a bit of gratitude every day. 'Cause it's really--

Joe:  As the opposite of envy. In this, in this--

Vicky:   Yeah. I'm not sure it's the opposite of envy, mudita is the opposite of envy I think. Anyway. Anyway, back in the room, what's going on in the world of Moxie Books? Well, all sorts of exciting things actually. So I am currently writing an Audible original book.

Joe:  Nice.

Vicky:   Commissioned by Audible themselves.

Joe:  Sweet!

Vicky:   Called, "That's What She Said," because I am hilarious. I can't believe they went for that title, 'cause I was like, this is a working title, we'll, like we'll do, and, they came back, they're like, no we love it! And I was like really? D'you know what it means? And I have been interviewing the most amazing women. I've interviewed two so far, Louise Blackman, hi Louise!

Joe:  Hi Louise.

Vicky:  Who was amazing the other day, she came to visit, and that was really fun, and we talked for a long time. That was, and I got some fantastic stuff, and then today, I went down to Cardiff, and saw, that was terrible isn't it, went down to Cardiff.

Joe: That was a bad Welsh accent.

Vicky:   And, interviewed Suzi Gray, at Captivator,

Joe:  Hi Suzi.

Vicky:  Captivation House. Hi Suzi! Who is another extraordinary businesswoman, and who I've wanted to meet for ages, and we just got on like a house on fire, and it was really cool.

Joe:  Nice.

Vicky:   Yeah, so, that was ace and I've got so many more cool women lined up, and they're all gonna, I'm gonna get them all on the podcast as well, when we, when, actually that will be really cool in the run-up to releasing the audiobook, I'm just gonna do a series of interviews with all of the women from the book. So yeah, it's all about stories from women in business, and, yeah I don't know, I'm still thinking about the exact direction I want the book to go in, but I want it to be a kind of, whatever age or, you know, position in life in society, and race and whatever you are, I wanted it to be a book that you could take lesson from and learn stuff and think, oh you know, other people have been through this, and it's difficult for everybody, and you can make it work.

Joe:  It is doable.

Vicky:   Yeah. But I wanted to do it through telling other women's stories.

Joe:  Cool. I think that's a good thing.

Vicky:   And it's just, yeah, it's gonna be great, it's gonna be so great. I've also, there's also some cool gossip, been going on as well, which will not be included in the book. So, that, well, maybe some of it we'll pick up. So yeah, if you have listened to every episode, email me with your postal address, and I will send you a special fan gift. Oh also, we need to give a shout-out to Joy.

Joe:  Hi, Joy.

Vicky:   Hi Joy, Joy from Taiwan.

Joe:  Oh, hello Joy.

Vicky:  Who has just bought my book, and who has been listening to our podcast, and loves the podcast.

Joe: What?

Vicky:   I know, right? And, so I'd said, oh, could you leave the review please? And she has left us a review, which doesn't, isn't showing on iTunes yet so I can't, I can't show you. But thank you so much for leaving us a review Joy, we really appreciate it. So yeah, that, it's just really nice to, to have people email. Yeah, and people listen to us in Taiwan which is awesome.

Joe:  That is bizarre.

Vicky:  It's great, and, yeah, if you've listened to every episode, email me with your postal address and I will send you a ridiculous little thing, to say thank you.

Joe:  Nice.

Vicky:   And, yeah, go review us.

Joe:  Review us?

Vicky:   Yeah.

Joe:  Shout-out to reviewers.

Vicky:  Shout-out to reviewers. And, yeah, you will get a shout-out.

Joe:  As long as it's five stars, obviously.

Vicky:  No you'll get, you'll get, well you'll get roasted if it's not, that's not true. You won't, you can, you can review us whatever you like.

Joe:  Review us honestly.

Vicky:  Yeah. If you don't like us, other podcasts are available. Yeah, and share it as well, if you like this podcast, share it. Send it to somebody who you think will enjoy it, or, send it to someone you don't like who you think it will annoy. Hm. That works too. Yes. Go to moxiebooks.co.uk/podcast, and we're still in the launch period of my book, so you can go to moxiebooks.co.uk/feb2020booklaunch, and the link, click to orders link will be in the show notes.

Joe:  Nice.

Vicky:  Yeah, thanks Joe.

Joe:  No worries.

Vicky:  We'll be back, same time next week.

Joe:  Bye!

Vicky:  Bye!

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