Episode 183: You Do You, Boo

Business For Superheroes Podcast Transcription: Episode One Hundred And Eighty Three: You Do You, Boo

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*In an industry stuffed with marketing bullshit, empty promises and shiny-suited liars, one woman’s had enough. She knows what it’s like to have the wrong clients, no money and no time for fun, but she also knows how to fix it, and, on the Business For Superheroes Show, she promises to tell the down and dirty truth about business, sales and running away with the circus! Here’s your host: Vicky Fraser…*  

Vicky:  Hello, and welcome to the "Business for Superheroes" show, I'm Vicky Fraser, and this is my husband, Joe.

Joe: Hello!

Vicky:  And it feels like we haven't done a podcast for a very long time. What do you think?

Joe: I don't, I feel tripped up by your lack of allowing me space to say hello.

Vicky:  Oh I'm sorry, so sorry, I'm so sorry.

Joe:No, it's fine really. It's fine.

Vicky:  Well welcome.

Joe:  I'll just talk over.

Vicky:  Welcome--

Joe:Whatever you say.

Vicky:  Welcome home . Okay, shut up! It's my podcast.

Joe: Okay, sorry.

Vicky:  Welcome home!

Joe: Thank you.

Vicky:  Joe's just been in Thailand. In Bangkok, and I would have gone as well if I hadn't has a trapeze competition in four days. But yeah, so how was it? In fact, why don't we drink? Cheers!

Joe: Cheers!

Vicky: Welcome home.

Joe: Thank you very much.

Vicky: What are you drinking?

Joe: I've got a bottle of beer.

Vicky: Is it Hop House Lager?

Joe: Hop House Lager.

Vicky:  And I have a little, tiny glass of elderflower gin liqueur, with a recipe for Elderflower Collins on the back of it. And this is from Gusto, and this is another of, I'm stretching out my Christmas present from Theresa, it's amazing.

Joe: Hi Theresa.

Vicky:  Hi Theresa. So yeah, this is it, cheers!

Joe: Cheers!

Vicky:  So, tell us about the weirdest thing that happened to you in Thailand.

Joe: Okay. So we were hosted by a Thai company, I was there with work, doing quite a lot of work to be perfectly honest, but we did have a bit of fun in the evenings with going out for dinner, and going to markets, and it was nice. One of the things we did was, we went to a bar, and it was quite nice, it wasn't weird, quite a lot of people think that everything in Thailand or Bangkok is kind of seedy, and it wasn't at all. So, we went to this bar, and it was very nice, had a couple of beers, it was huge. There were like thousands of people there, there was live music, it had multiple big spaces, it was great. And I went for a wee. 'Cause you do, when you are drinking beer.

Vicky:  As you do.

Joe: In a bar. Somewhat disturbingly, I was, I don't really know how to say this, somebody, a Thai gentleman, snuck up behind me, and ran his hands up and down the back of my neck, and then started massaging my shoulders, whilst I was doing what I was there to do.

Vicky:  Having a wee.

Joe: Which was having a wee.

Vicky:  Yes.

Joe:Now, I don't know how much experience you've got, stood in front of urinals, Vicky, but--

Vicky:  Very little, Joe.

Joe: I'm sure some of the readers--

Vicky:  I try to avoid male toilets, 'cause they're gross.

Joe: Some of our listeners have probably some experience in this, but I mean in the UK, you don't even talk to people at urinals. You don't look at them, you don't talk to them, you don't say a word.

Vicky:  Okay.

Joe:You might just about say hi, while you're washing your hands afterwards. But at a urinal it is like, do not. One thing you really don't do, is sneak up behind them, and start touching them. Particularly without their consent. So this was a bit weird, but you know, it's a whole different culture, and it's all a bit strange.

Vicky:  It's a different culture.

Joe: Different culture. So this dude, you know, I kind of froze, and you know, my eyes widened a little bit, but he couldn't see that 'cause he was a foot shorter than me and standing behind me. And he proceeded to, you know, massage my neck, massage the backs of my arms, massage my shoulders, and start, you know, working his way down my spine, and I'm like, this is deeply strange. Not entirely unpleasant, but deeply strange, and when I was finished doing the thing I was there to do,

Vicky:  Weeing.

Joe: Weeing. He was like, okay so, and he did all kinds of weird shit, like he made me put both my hands behind my head, and then held on to one of my elbows then bent down and grabbed the opposite ankle, and like--

Vicky:  I didn't hear the rest of this story.

Joe: Yeah, no and then he did that, then he like, crunched me and I crunched like two or three vertebrae, and then he was like, yanking my head about a bit, like you know, and that got a few cracks and bangs, and he worked his way down my spine with various things, and I was just stunned frankly. I was just frozen to the spot while this small Thai man did things to me in the bathroom.

Vicky:  Okay, cool.

Joe: And yeah, that was kinda that.

Vicky:  And after that, you made sure you went to the bathroom with Baht in your pocket.

Joe: With small amounts of money in my pocket because, yes that's kinda the deal. He's like the chap in UK nightclubs who wants to give you a squirt of aftershave.

Vicky:  Yeah, in ladies toilets in nightclubs, there might be a couple of people with hand cream, and baskets of nice things and you could either give them some money or not.

Joe: Yep.

Vicky: So, well that's--

Joe: It was startling.

Vicky:  Yeah I can imagine. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know that the British culture was quite so, don't even look at anybody in a bathroom, but I was aware that touching is certainly not a thing that happens.

Joe: Not in bathrooms.

Vicky:  Not in straight bathrooms.

Joe: Not in straight bathrooms no.

Vicky: Um, so yeah, Joe's been in Thailand.

Joe: That was fun.

Vicky: And now he's home, which is great, 'cause he was gone for a whole week. And I was missing you, and now you're back which is great. And Dingle update! Oh my godness, exciting things going on on the Dingle. Today, our neighbor, who is a builder has been digging a great big hole which is gonna be where the foundations for my new office is gonna go.

Joe:Yeah.

Vicky:  Which is super exciting 'cause that's gonna be where I am going to create my 1000 authors and all the rest of it, so business update on what's going on in my business, I have built a new website.

Joe: Nice!

Vicky:  Did that last week.

Joe: Is it available for the public?

Vicky:  Not quite. Some of the links and the stuff don't work yet. But I'm really pleased with it, and you had a look at it didn't you.

Joe: Yeah it looks cool, it's really good.

Vicky: Yeah, it looks like a grown up did it. And a grown up most definitely did not do it. I did it. So yeah, so this-- and I'm kinda a bit at sixes and sevens, because last, I think the last podcast we were in Portugal, which seems like a long time ago.

Joe: Surely not.

Vicky: I think it was.

Joe: No!

Vicky:  Yeah! I've just basically not done a podcast for a couple of weeks and I really hope--

Joe: That's bad

Vicky:  -- we still have a listener.

Joe: Hi listener.

Vicky:  Um but yeah, we're back on it. We're changing the podcast soon. It's gonna reflect more what I do now, which is business owners and self publishing and writing books and things. Fundamentally it's still going to be you and me rambling about.

Joe: Talking about nonsense.

Vicky:  But it's going to be a bit of a rebrand of the stuff, so I think I felt a little bit like ugh, you know I don't really know what to do. And then I thought well you know what, let’s talk about being funny when you're writing, and that's a nice follow on from the story that you've just told us, which is frankly hilarious if you're not you. And yeah, because we actually got a question a while ago, and I think we answered it on one of the podcasts, but I just wanted to expand on it a little bit. Because it led to a whole chapter in my book, which was how can I be funny? How can I be fun? How can I-- And I think what she was really asking was how can I not be boring. How can I inject personality into my writing. But I wanted to talk about actually being funny, if people, you know, genuinely want to be funny.

Joe: Okay

Vicky:  'Cause it's a bit of a tricky game. It's a dangerous game to play. For a variety of reasons, but I wanted to start with a joke. Knock, Knock.

Joe: Who's there?

Vicky: Mustache.

Joe: Mustache who?

Vicky:  Mustache you a question, but I'll shave it for later. I like that joke. It sounds a lot better when you tell it in a Sean Connery voice I think.

Joe: Okay, try again.

Vicky:  You do it. Can you do Sean Connery?

Joe: No.

Vicky:  Knock, Knock. Knock, knock, that's an entirely different joke.

Joe: That's not Sean Connery.

Vicky:  Right, moving swiftly on. So when we're talking about being funny, We're not really talking about telling jokes, because I think telling jokes is a skill in and of itself. I cannot tell a joke, as I have just amply demonstrated.

Joe: Clearly demonstrated.

Vicky:  But I'm pretty funny,I can be funny, I can write-- I know I make people laugh with my writing. I certainly can make people laugh with my physical humor. When I'm at the pole studio and stuff like that, and I can come up with amusing, you know, I can tell a funny story when I've had a bit of preparation. But I can't tell a joke to save my life.

Joe: Right.

Vicky:  And I just wanted to kinda say that being funny doesn't necessarily mean telling jokes. And if you think about how the funniest comedians do their skits, it's rarely jokes.

Joe:It's very rarely jokes, it's all about stories.

Vicky:  It's all about stories, it's all about turns of phrase, it's all about timing is really important. It's all about knowing your audience, and knowing how to tell a story in such a way that, I mean the best comedians can tell a tragic story and make it funny, and make it funny without being crass. Do you know what I mean?

Joe: Yeah.

Vicky: And that kind of thing takes years, decades of practice. So that's the first thing I wanted to say is. If you wanna be funny, I think that actually the question was If I were to write a book, how would I write with humor, and still hammer home the intent? Which is a really, really good question, and I think if your trying to be funny, it's dangerous for a variety of reasons. First because humor is very subjective. Some people actually don't have a sense of humor at all, as in they don't get jokes, they don't understand funny. And you know, that doesn't make them bad people, or wrong people, it just means that they don't under-

Joe: They're not getting it.

Vicky:  They don't have a sense of humor. Yeah, it's not that they're miserable, it's that, I don't know, it's just, they don't find things funny. Other people will have an entirely different sense of humor to you. So what you might find hilarious, they might find either-- they either won't get it, they might find it horribly offensive, or they might just be like, well that's not funny. I don't you know-- what? Other people will think you're absolutely hilarious. And so that's another thing to keep in mind. If you write something funny, or you write something that you would like to be funny, not everybody is going to find it funny. Not everybody is going to find it amusing.

Joe: Well that's the same kinda deal with any sort of open and honest writing isn't it. People are either gonna like it, or they're not, or they're not gonna get it, or they're gonna love it, or anywhere between. It's just how it is when you're writing things.

Vicky: Yeah, I think the danger though with trying to be funny is that you can try too hard as well. And that just goes through funny and out the other side into total cringe. So you know when you're listening to someone and they're clearly trying to be funny, and you just want to crawl inside your own face, because it's just like - am I keeping you up? I probably am actually.

Joe: You are a bit yeah.

Vicky: You're still on Thai time.

Joe:I'm still on Thai time, yeah.

Vicky: Joe just did a massive yawn and then tried not to yawn and ended up gurning hilariously. We should have been videoing that. So yeah it's, if you try and be funny I think sometimes there's a danger that you try too hard and you just pass through into cringe worthy and then everybody will want to climb inside their own faces and you don't want to make people feel like that.

Joe: Yeah, I think an early key to being funny is being liked.

Vicky: Yes.

Joe: If you are liked, then people will go with you and find it amusing, if you are not liked, they'll think you're just being a twat.

Vicky: Yes, actually I was listening to a podcast today, a self-publishing podcast with James Black and Mark Olsen which is a great podcast by the way.

-Joe: Hey James, hey Mark.

Vicky:  Hi guys! I so would love it if they were listening. And they were interviewing an author who's name I didn't catch because I'm a terrible person. Anyway, he was talking about the seven Ps of publishing and he was talking about one of the Ps I think it was people, and how important it is to be liked. And James Black was talking about he used to be a BBC journalist and now he does this, and he said he's met people, he's met presidents and kings, and you know, big celebrities, and he said almost without question, every single one of the people that he met was really nice, really likable, and you know how people love to be bitchy about the rich and famous, and he made the really good point that all these people are super successful and at the top of their game because they are likable people. You don't get to the top of your game by being an arsehole.

Joe: If everybody is trying to cut you down, 'cause you're an arse.

Vicky: Yeah, and you know, the rare exceptions to that rule that we hear about, the Donald Trumps and the Boris Johnsons would you guys just fuck off- of the world, they're the ones that get all of the noise you know, all of the media noise. They are not the norm in the world of politics. They are not the norm in the world of celebrity. They're just the ones that have made enough noise and the media have picked up and the media are like oh this is a great story. But the vast majority of people who are at the top of their game whether that's business, celebrity, politics are likable people, they go out of their way it's in their business interest to make sure that they are likable. So that is- I kinda riffed off your point there, but it's really important to be liked by your audience.

Joe: Yes for sure.

Vicky: And it's super important, and that's not about trying to be someone that you're not or being fake or anything else, it's about not being a dick.

Joe:Yeah, and I think also not putting up too much of a persona.

Vicky:  Yeah.

Joe:You know, that gets my goat certainly, when somebody is clearly hiding who they really are, I don't really care who people are,

Vicky:  As long as they're real.

Joe: As long as they're real.

Vicky:  And that can be a bit tricky, when you're right at the beginning of your career or your business that can be a little bit tricky because you're not, you know you're not quite sure who you are yet, you're finding your feet and you're nervous, and so, you know if you listen back to our first podcast, we probably sound like-- and people have said we sound completely different, 'cause there were nerves there. It's not that we were trying, necessarily to be something that we're not, but there was a certain amount of nerves, if you look back at my earlier writing, my really early daily emails, and all the rest of it I sound like a different person, because I probably was trying a little bit too hard to not be something that I wasn't, but to just be a bit more impressive than I felt like I was. So that is something to bear in mind as well, when you are writing your book, don't worry about trying to impress people, that's you know, if what you have to say is valuable, and your message is good and your intent is good, people will be impressed by you, and that's not the point anyway, it's like when you help people, always keep in mind, am I being a dick and is this gonna help people? And the answer to the first one wants to be no, and the answer to the second one wants to be yes. I could have picked two better questions then. I think you can just sum the whole podcast up, like everything up as don't be a dick and help people.

Joe: Yeah, that would be pretty much

Vicky:  Yeah.

Joe: That would do it wouldn't it?

Vicky:  And then if you've got a funny story to tell, tell it.

Joe: Tell it honestly. As yourself.

Vicky:  Yeah.

Joe: Don't try and sound like Billy Connolly.

Vicky:  Yeah, 'cause only Billy Connolly can do that.

Joe: 'Cause that's what Billy Connolly sounds like.

Vicky:  And this is the thing you see, 'cause I remember reading an article about Jerry Seinfeld. Is that his name?

Joe: Seinfeld, yeah.

Vicky:  Seinfeld, yeah. And he, it just never occurred to me before I read this article, and this is so stupid because it's like people say it to me when they see me do a trapeze thing oh I could never do that, and well nor could I six years ago. And it never occurred to me that comedians were made and not born until I read this article by him, and he's like I write jokes every single day, I write funny stories every single day I work on my material every single day.

Joe: I'm working.

Vicky: Yeah, I'm working on this stuff I don't just get up on a stage and be funny, that's not how this works, and you know, when you think about it like that you think of course it's obvious, you know.

Joe: Of course they're putting the hours in.

Vicky:  Of course they're putting the hours in. But that's the thing, when you see them on stage and they're so funny, and it's so effortless, that's the result and that's why people think oh I could never be a comedian, that's why when people see me doing something really polished on a trapeze routine, they're like oh I could never do that, it's like well right now, no you couldn't, but what you haven't seen is all the bruises. The hitting the floor with my face, you know, the working out what's gonna work and what isn't gonna work. And it's the same way with being funny. If you really, genuinely want to be funny, if you want to write funny books, you need to practice, you need to go learn. Go and learn how to do stand-up comedy.

Joe: Oh I can't imagine anything worse.

-Vicky:  I'm looking, I'm actually looking for a stand-up comedy class. There's the Bristol improv theater, which is the closest place that I could find, and I'm waiting for them to run another course that I can actually attend and it's gonna push me so far out my comfort zone, because whilst I said I earlier I can be funny and you know, I can make people laugh, the idea of having to stand on a stage and deliberately make people--

Joe: Do it now.

Vicky: You know, deliberately do it now just makes my stomach uhh, it makes me feel sick. But that is part of the reason why I want to go and do it, because I will learn an awful lot about an awful lot of things I think. So yeah if you want to be funny, if you want to learn how to make people laugh, go and learn, go and find a comedy class go to a comedy club, and do a stand-up show and that's how all the comedians, you know famous comedians started, they went and did something that sounds so horrifying that I can barely form the words, they went and did a first skit in a comedy club, and they probably got fruit thrown at them.

Joe:Yeah, probably had an awful time.

Vicky:  Yeah, they probably had three people there who were all drunk or asleep, and it was just horrific. And you know you gotta, I'm not saying that people listening are gonna want to become comedians but you can learn to be funny is what I'm saying.

Joe: And I think for me, it's the people who are honest that I find amusing and entertaining and funny.

Vicky: Yeah, painfully honest.

Joe: People with that yeah, painfully honest, with no projected persona, just who they are.

Vicky: Yeah.

Joe: They're the people who find it, with me as the audience as funny.

Vicky: Yeah. Is that- do I fall into that category, 'cause I'm clearly hilarious?

Joe:Yeah, you're pretty funny.

Vicky:  Are you mostly laughing at me rather than with me?

Joe:No.

Vicky: I'm wearing a sad face right now.

Joe: Aww!

Vicky:  So the other thing that I wondered when I got this question about writing with humor. I wondered if the person asking the question really meant how do I write entertainingly without talking down to my reader and still hammer home my message. I suspect that's what she really meant. So when actually writing a comedy book you're you know, you're not trying to be funny. I really hope that-- Drayton Bird by the way wrote my-- Hi Drayton, wrote the foreword to my book, which I am so excited about, and he has read a bit of it and he was like, oh yeah, Vicky's funny as well she'll teach you stuff and she's funny, and I was like that's the coolest thing that's ever happened to me.

Joe: If you're not sure who Drayton Bird is by the way, Google him and find out.

Vicky:  Yeah. Because if you are even a little bit serious about marketing and business, you need to know who this guy is and you need to sign up for his ideas and just, he's just awesome, his autobiography is going to be out soon and I'm helping him write it and it's just-- it's gonna be the most fucking eye-opening shock for-- it's gonna be, you won't believe he's lived the life he has. But he has. I'm amazed he's still alive.

Joe: Super interesting guy.

Vicky:  He's super interesting yeah. But yeah, so how to write entertainingly without talking down to people I think is really the thing and the key to that is not to clamber aboard your soap box and preach at people, which is I think very easy to do when you're feeling a little bit nervous and you're like oh I've got this stuff to teach and you're going into kinda didactic teaching mode and you get up on your platform and you go: These are the things that you must do. And that's gonna put people off and its gonna come across as preaching, and probably you'll find that a lot of your writing is filled with words like should and must and need to. And those are the words that you need to get rid of and then rewrite it a little bit. So the easiest way I can think of to do that is to tell stories rather than stand there and tell people what to do, tell stories about what you've done, and what your clients have done, you know, what other people who can teach a lesson have done. We learn through stories, we don't learn through somebody standing up--

Joe: Here are the three points

Vicky: Yeah, here are the three points. Yes, that's important, but first of all you need to entertain me and engage me and draw me in and I think that's really what she was asking. Its about being human, telling human stories, asking questions of your reader, getting your reader involved on your level, so that you're not just bellowing advice at them from the top of a pulpit in the way that, you know happens in churches and places like that. And then the last thing I want to say really is kinda what you said, which is be yourself.

Joe: Mmh, really?

-Vicky:  Yeah.

Joe:I didn't even read the show notes.

Vicky:  There aren't any show notes.

Joe: I mean the- your notes.

Vicky:  My book chapter that I'm staring at right now.

Joe: Oh is that-- oh that's what it is.

Vicky: Yeah, um yeah so just be yourself. So I think one of the other big dangers is, and I have fallen into this trap myself, but I will quite often read something that somebody has said and then be like, oh my god that's absolutely hilarious or brilliant and I wish I'd written it, and then I'm like right I need to recreate that somehow in my words and it never works, because it wasn't my idea in the first place, and it's really difficult to put something like that into your own words. I'm all for taking other peoples stories and putting your own spin on them, but trying to be funny on the back of somebody else's funny thing just it never works. So what I think is, you know, read it, laugh hilariously at it, make a note of it, learn from it and think okay so why was this funny? Why did this make me laugh? Pick it apart, was it the words they used, was it the timing they used, was it the order of telling the story, 'cause sometimes just swapping the order of telling a story is gonna make it funny. So rather than kinda try and think ugh, I really wish I'd written that, how can I rewrite that in my own words, don't, pick it apart instead and then think how can I tell stories like that in the future? You know, what was it about this story that made me laugh hilariously? Uproariously. I think that's a much more useful thing, and also stay within your comfort zone, you know maybe writing funny things isn't your thing, maybe you're more slapstick comedy, maybe you're more Laurel and Hardy, which is cool, and if that's the case then go and give speeches on stages and make people laugh that way. I think that's a pretty good piece of advice as well, but be you, do you. You do you boo!

Joe: Gotta be you.

Vicky:  Yeah, you do you boo. Okay, so I think we're pretty much done, what's the takeaway? Takeaway is be yourself.

Joe: Be yourself.

Vicky: Yeah be yourself, everyone else is taken. Unless you can be Batman.

Joe: Yeah, don't be Batman.

Vicky:  Yeah, yeah. So that's that for this week.

Joe: Blimey!

Vicky:  Yeah, next week I want to go through the 10 commandments of writing your book.

Joe: Ugh!

Vicky:  I know. Which is at the beginning of my book.

Joe: All 10 of them? Is that not 10 podcasts?

Vicky:  I don't know I can't remember what I said. Actually lets have a look, is it 10 podcasts or is it is it just one podcast? No it's one podcast.

Joe: It's a podcast.

Vicky:  How very dare you. We could make 10 podcasts out of it.

Joe: Well we could, I mean you know, we've-- you remember the hostage negotiation series?

Vicky:  Shut up!

Joe: That was great.

Vicky:  Anyway I have a couple of shout outs.

Joe:Ooh hello!

Vicky:  Yeah! So in my post box last week when you were away in Thailand, getting massaged by strangers in toilets, I had two parcels delivered. The first one arrived on I think Tuesday, and it was from Natasja Lewis. Hi Natasja!

Joe: Hi Natasja!

Vicky:  And I just wanted to say congratulations, and bloody well done for sending me a copy of your first book. Is it your first book? No I think it's your second book. I think she's written another book, co-written with somebody else. I think it's her first solo book, and it's called No Pulling Allowed from Painfully Disappointing Drag to Delightfully Relaxing Stroll and it is all about how to train your dog to basically not pull on the lead I think.

Joe: Nice.

Vicky:  And she wrote me a lovely little note inside, thank you for all your support, hope you enjoy my book, let the tiny sheep training commence. So I'm going to use her book, and I'm gonna write her an amazing amazon review, I'm gonna use her book to train the tiny sheep to do agility.

Joe: Oh okay, well walking on a lead would be handy.

Vicky: Actually yeah, walking on a lead really would be handy. And also I'm going to train them to open more doors.

Joe: No.

Vicky:  Yes.

Joe: No sheep in the house.

Vicky:  Yes, sheep in the house. You sent the sheep into the house the other day, to wake me up, yeah, so yeah really Natasja well done, I am so proud of you for creating this book or for writing this book, some beautiful color photos in here as well. Really beautiful.

Joe: Looks great.

Vicky:  It looks absolutely great, you should be really proud of this. I'm super chuffed for you, so that's really exciting. She also sent me this, she sent a little letter, which is always what I tell people to do, congratulations on ordering and you know a little bit of check out the bonuses and all that kinda thing and reminding people to actually read it. And she also sent me a little neckerchief, which I presume is for doggies to wear around their collar but I'm totally gonna tie this around Bronson's neck and he is gonna-- like gently, not in a-- That sounded awful. I'm gonna give him a, what do you call it? What do you call them?

Joe: A neckerchief?

Vicky:  Is that a neckerchief or what, they have another name.

Joe: Do they?

Vicky:  Yeah, aw man. Its not kimono, cause that's like a oh my god, I've descended into noises.

Joe: I have no idea what word you're searching for.

Vicky:  Somebody's gonna be like oh for god's sake it's called a blah. Anyway, a neckerchief, we're gonna give Bronson a neckerchief and I'm gonna take a picture of him with the No Pulling Allowed, and he'll probably be pulling me over and that'll be you know, physical comedy, hilarious. So that was really exciting. Congratulations Natasja I'm really chuffed for you.

Joe: Well done Natasja.

Vicky:  Yeah, I'm gonna make a video about that, and then the second book to arrive was Carol's book.

Joe: Hey Carol.

-Vicky:  Hi Carol! Congratulation on publishing. Carol is a doggy doctor, she's published Problem Pooch to Perfect Pet Number One: Troublesome to Tranquil, beautifully illustrated on the front cover by Rob. Hi Rob!

Joe: Hey Rob!

Vicky:  Who's done a fantastic cartoon. She's sent me a gorgeous hand-made, 'cause Carol's also a super crafter. She's sent me a gorgeous hand made bookmark in with it as well.

Joe: Nice.

Vicky:  And she has, I don't know if she's written in this but she has, it's just great, it looks fantastic. Again, you know, beautifully produced, beautifully written.

Joe: Looks great.

Vicky:  Lovely laid out. Looks like a proper book which it bloody is a proper book, it's also, again illustrated beautifully by Rob.

Joe: Awesome.

Vicky:  Yeah. Should I stop my dog eating grass, and then there's a picture of a sheep, which is fantastic. I feel like Rob has modeled that sheep on our sheep.

Joe: Could be.

Vicky: But it hasn't got horns. So yeah, beautifully illustrated and just generally Carol, well done, the book looks fantastic, I'm really looking forward to reading it. I've already read, beta read part of it, and gave her a few suggestions but I'm so proud of you guys. It's not an easy thing to write and publish a book. It's so many moving parts, so much goes into it, it's so difficult and so, you know, anybody can do it, most people won't, and so I'm just so delighted, congratulations. Yeah, you can go and buy their books on Amazon. So No Pulling Allowed by Natasja Lewis, and Problem Pooch to Perfect Pet Number One by Carol Clark the doggy doctor. If you've got a dog, go and buy their books because you'll most definitely find them helpful.

Joe: Learn some stuff, your dog will be happier.

Vicky: Yes, well done guys I'm so proud.

Joe: Yeah, well done.

Vicky:  We'll be back same time next week talking about the 10 commandments of writing a book. What was that?

Joe: I don't know. There was a noise behind us.

Vicky:  There was a noise behind us.

Joe: Probably a cat being bad.

Vicky:  We're gonna go and investigate that noise we'll be back same time next week, please go to iTunes and leave us a five star review.

Joe: Five stars!

Vicky:  And share this.

Joe: Share it, tell your friends.

Vicky: And go to, oh my god by the time this comes out.

Joe: You'll have to do it if you say it.

Vicky:  I know. Yes I will. Okay go to www.moxiebooks.co.uk/preorderbook

Joe: Nice.

Vicky:  And you will be able to pre order my new book How The Hell Do You Write A Book, and then you too could be getting a shout out on the podcast much like Natasja and Carol, when you send me a copy of your beautiful published book. I'm on a mission to create 1000 authors.

Joe: Nice, that's a good mission.

Vicky:  It is a good mission. 1000 business owner/authors so go do that. Moxiebooks.co.uk/preorderthebook You know what, I've just said two different URLs. The URL will be the show notes.

Joe: Yeah, moxiebooks.co.uk

Vicky:  Insert URL here.

Joe: Right.

Vicky:  Thanks very much Joe

Joe: No worries.

Vicky:  See you next week guys!

Joe:  Bye!

Vicky:  Bye!

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